Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Just because the radiator does not boil people assume that the cooling system is ok. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Recovery & flushing is the only way out of an oil overcharge in your vehicle.B. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. . Is there more info needed?THanks -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Paul:I had to dig a bit deeper - MB made several running changes in the 1983 123'sThere are actually 4 different circuit diagrams for the A/C system that year - just for your 123.123 I found the R4 reference, and it should have 170 Ml of oil in the system.Your aux fan should run at the ambients you listed. But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. Its cylinders are colored white. R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic 3) A/C Compressor Always On. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. They would then make short "jumper hoses" to connect to the existing stock hoses, refit your old fan if there is a "pusher" fan, and recharge to specs. PDF Tecumseh Guidelines for Utilization of R134a R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. 10,000BTU conduction heating? Should I do the test again with the the aux fan jumpered? Your old hoses of course will not fit. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. It won't be optimal, though. The cure is to use the newer R134a compressors is sealing washers that are different thickness. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. A Comparison Study of the Thermal Performance of R12 and R134a Sense ells no existirem. The car never overheats, if that has any import. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. Yep, definately not a meat locker. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. A/C systems designed to use R-12 will cool best when charged with R-12 refrigerant. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. I don't know where it is getting the switch off command, or why the vent temp drops steadily. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Some 1993 and older R12 systems aren't as 'compatible' as you'd think to switch over. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. We recently created this blog site to enable us to share our knowledge with other automotive mechanics and car owners. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. 2022 nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer, a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve, 2020 white paper of the church of pentecost, Chime Mobile Check Deposit Funds Availability, Why Does James Kill Donald In The Vanishing, nba 2k22 starting a fashion label signing the designer. . I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. R12 Expansion Valve with R134A charge? - Maverick It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. The ozone depletion potential of a chemical is a factor that shows the level of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds and secures the earth from harmful radiation. 5. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. . Are you sure you have an R4? The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. Is there a graph? Then at least I'd know really where I am on it. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. With tube & fin condensors in MVAC applications there is never "too much" airflow. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. R134a requires a different oil. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. Get to the point where I can walk without crutches2. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. R134a. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . It is mixed with the freon for the most part, and does accumulate in all components in small amounts. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? CR4P). 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Compared with the cost-performance ratio, R507 is 30-40% . I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. I'll put the relay on for that. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. This is an electronic tool that sucks in air through a tube and across a sensor. The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). . Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Blows pretty hard on full. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Biggest you can fit in there is best. Answer: OK, I'll bite. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. GWP is a measurement of Greenhouse Gases and their effect on Global Warming. Just leave it alone for now. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. R-134a can actually cool better than R-12 in a well designed R-134a system as it has better thermoconductive properties, but all the high pressure issues have to be addressed.But even when these cars were brand new, didn't cool worth a damned, recall almost dying in one in Las Vegas at the time, but a good way to lose weight with gallons of perspiration pouring out, just don't let that drip on the seats, that is inappropriate. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. Vent temperatures slowly go down to around 50F with hi speed driving. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. MB has specfic test parameters for performance, but you can always test at max load - doors open fan on highest speed.The oil overcharge looks like a parabolic curve. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? - Automotive Air Conditioning Hence, let us continue to fix it. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Bad Car A/C Expansion Valve Symptoms. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. Big . You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? Warning: "continue" targeting switch is equivalent to "break".Did you mean to use "continue 2"? and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. R1234yf. Generally this works well for the whole system. 4 Stars & Up & Up; 3 Stars & Up & Up; 2 Stars & Up . I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? Its highest value is 1. #19. I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. According to the thermodynamic characteristics, it is close to the R12 freon, however, it is 10-15% worse in terms of cooling capacity and is more fluid. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. Add to cart. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. The substitute that we used for R-12 was the new HFC called R-134a. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . The system has been previously converted to R-134a. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. I've done the FSM test and with 81F ambient, the vent should be 50F. By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. That is a good thing. This leads me to labor over every small decision. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? Minor adjustments to the expansion valve and other controls may be necessary for some plans. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Break out the new gauges and measure hi and lo at 1500rpm, and do the Merc FSM test to see how we're doing performance wise. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. Dimensioning of refrigeration components - part 2 - Danfoss This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! As per their results . Any ideas from the info above? The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a .
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