Caster is best described as a vertical line that runs through the 2 pivot points in your car or trucks suspension. Most of the time when some ask the question they are at that point and just don't know it. It would be nice if we could change the rear suspension, I have done a lot of research on it and have found some info, there is just not a lot legally that can be done with it. This will help keep your ride heights in the ballpark. As each season comes along, our knowledge of what we need and desire grows. Even when clear rules exist, the track officials are often reluctant to enforce them. A complete body comes with the fiberglass hood and roof, plastic MD3 nose and tail, a set of skirts, trunk, a box of rivets. Flat Tracks: On an asphalt car, utilizing slightly stiffer rebound on the left side, while softening the rebound on the right side, will generally enhance the handling of the car. Would a 11 in be better or a 13 in spring in back be better. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. A trend must prove itself in order to stand the test of time. I was also wondering, are there any tricks you have to make your tires wear slower without damaging speed. Chassis Setup Docs Hyper Racing. Aero Package RacelineCentral.com All Rights Reserved, NASCAR 2K3 Racing Season Garage 101 Guide Download, Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 2.5. Prices listed are with a frame swap option. The message I get from those who have worked this trend for a sufficient number of years is one of the following two types: 1) a continuing and constant search for balance in the car and a loss of success on the track, or 2) a returning to the more conventional setups because they have experienced number 1 above. Try one or two click on each spring perch shown above to raise the cross weight. Setup Tips: These tips are for an independent a-arm front suspension and 3-link rear suspension type of car, but may apply to other types of suspensions as well. Create New Wish List . I think if I had the opportunity I could make the 4-link work on asphalt using a similar set-up that I used on dirt. The less angle the better. That's why I asked about weight jacks in the original post. I appreciate the lead. Moderators:FeliciaMC88, UFo Race Championship. It locates the rearend fore and aft, it reduces rear steer when the chassis rolls, it prevents axle wrap-up when braking or accelerating, and it provides a relatively stable roll center location. LIT-721 80293NDP 2009-2015 Cadillac CTS-V HE. Order Wilwood part number 150-9442K. That troubles me. On a metric four-link car, the four control arms determine the rear moment center height too. Basically - after you finish the set up routine, the car goes in the hauler. //-->. If you find that the left rear is the coolest tire on the car, then you have a setup balance problem where the rear is too stiff. Contact Us. If we can lower the Metric RC to 13 inches, we would increase the moment arm length in the rear to 4.5 inches and that's a huge improvement in compliance. What Are Russet Mites? They should be matched up within a couple of degrees of average temperature across the tread. LIT-719 80292 C7 Corvette Radiator. Poorboy, I think you're exactly right. as for the powertrain setup, 40 over 350 basically all stock with 882 heads and a 450lift isky oval track cam, brand new factory q-jet, running a 3-speed saginaw factory clutch/PP pulling the track in first gear, 2.54 with a 2.73 ring/pinion, not very big on power for the setup works VERY well together for this track, if you can keep it . Plan your shock layout by comparing the stiffness of one to the other corners and to the spring stiffness at the corner you are trying to control. Page 1 of 1. 321. Street Stock Setups. I thought these were street STOCKS? Thanks g dirt i will try that.im not totaly done with car yet just try to get ideas thanks, you are real close to what guys are running, but g is right, scale the car, i run leaf springs or i would tell you what i was running. 122. 4. Forum Actions: Forum Statistics: Threads: 4; Posts: 10; Last Post: I-44 Speedway-Jeg's Master of. ; this was with all four stock trailing arms. Street Stock; Other; Best Selling. How do I tighten or loosen the car on entry? The upper IC is to the rear of the rearend and the IC for the lower links is well in front of the rearend. Using our asphalt design technology as a building block and the dirt experience of our new shop foreman we designed our first dirt late model. Samuel232. A Setup To-Do List to Get You Started . Current Stock: Quantity: Decrease Quantity: Increase Quantity: Save to Wishlist. Adjust drag link accordingly, *unless something is bent, spindles, drag link, idler arms, etc. I'm thinking that a panhard bar would eliminate side to side motion but little else. I followed the progress of the THR #01 SS very closely and when Terry says he tried everything legally possible to get that rear end to quit binding up during body roll, he's not exagerating. So, in most cases, we need to run a softer spring in the right rear. Sep 1, 2009. What do you mean by spring loaded trailing arm, i've always had that idea, but not sure if its something thats available or something i would have to fab up. They should also be able to run any panhard bar. Adjust the cross weight for more extreme conditions or different circumstances. Bump Springs Tech. When we recently set up our Project Modified for our first race, we followed a simple list of to-do items that are the same for every race car I ever set up. Setup Balance After payment you will be directed to a download page. LIT-A950700016 80275NDP Ford Mustang Cobra HE. Sometimes the handling of the car might not be to your liking. Excessive front toe in will make a car turn into a corner quicker, & may create a loose condition. where can i get info on the set ups for a metric chassis short track dirt car, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Brake bias influence can be easily determined by entering the corner with medium to heavy braking first and then entering with light braking to see if there is a difference. Get it right or don't get it at all. The driveshaft alignment is critical from the standpoint of mechanical efficiency. The settings, including the moment center location, really do dictate how all of the other parts and pieces of setup will work. Loss of efficiency can rob power from the drivetrain due to the generation of vibrations and harmonics that are also damaging to the bearings. For warmer track temperatures, you are going to need to tighten the car. We are only talking about a difference of 0.040- to 0.060-inch, but that is enough to help stabilize our car on exit and provide added bite. 3. Shocks affect the motion of the corners of the car and therefore the placement of loads during transitional periods. I guess the leaf cars could be allowed adjustable shackles in the rear to even that one out, sort-of. I have little experience on dirt but can definetely notice this! I spoke with Dave24 after last weekend, he dropped the fronts down to 700 LF and 800 RF and got the cross down to 45.8%, pulled the bolt out and floated the RR spring. The cross weight adjustments should work on all dirt cars except the Sprint Cars. Sort by. With so many different combinations of possibilities it leaves us with literally thousands of possible chassis combinations to choose from. Try to understand how aero downforce is created and then configure your car so that you take advantage of every area where you could produce more downforce. Street Stock Tech. I drove the #01 ss for two years and tried everything I could think of within the rules and it was a hard job to keep the car in control because of the binding of the rear suspension. Each end has its own moment arm length and resistance to roll as well as other factors. Stock chassis that has been: Boxed, second "inner" frame tube added, suspension pickup points doubled and gusseted, rear frame notch (for future, wider tires), cross braces at front, rear shocks, and rear of frame. Good luck and keep the rubber side down!!! Some people add preload to the sway bar to make cross weight adjustments. Grill tape is nothing more than duct tape. Setup Changes For The Metric four-link Even if we can lower the rear RC to around 13 inches, that's still a high rear RC. I ran a metric street stock at HMP for a number of years and was definitely not at a disadvantage. The moment arm is 5.5 inches for the Late Model and is much easier to set up. . It costs just as much money, if not more, to run poorly, so you might as well learn to run well. The car madracing 19 has for sale has all of these things done to it. Why Lower The Rear RC? It also seems hard to argue that the stock 4-link/metric cars have a hard time being competive in our SS/Sportsman classes where a stock suspension is mandated. pretty much none of that ++*% matters at stateline, it is mostly driver and survival is the name of the game, get all your angles and roll centers figured out and you will be faster when you make it to the front i have seen dozens of cars that dominate in the stock class at stateline but get squashed at eriez and rw7 however once you get a car fast at either of those tracks then you will be fast everywhere you go. We can add the stiffer bushings to most of the points, but leave several, one at the top and one at the bottom, as a rubber bushing to absorb the torque created in roll. Steering Geometry We do not want to try to solve turn entry problems with the brake bias, we only need to make sure the car stays neutral in handling when the brakes are applied. Check with the rules to see if it's even mentioned. Probably to the guys that are beating you! Also has a anti roll bar added to it. . It's the average height of the instant centers that determine the roll center height. We had no idea how popular and successful this line of chassis would be. With setups that use a very stiff right rear spring, the angle of the right trailing arm will need to be less than when using a conventional softer spring because that corner will move less. Load the setup in the iRacing simulation under Garage - My Setups. By The car is loose mid to exit with not foward drive. The use of softer front springs, larger sway bars, and big spring split in the rear has swept across the country for more than five years now with mixed results. The components that locate the rear end must be evaluated and set correctly. Ill also answer a couple of common questions: These changes are applicable to all asphalt oval cars. This guide covers much of the basics for the less experienced sim racer as well as a troubleshooting section that should help reduce your lap times. (Uncheck the box beside Attach left side and use the arrows beside Left bar end clearance to zero the preload). I set the car up a particular way last year and won a heat race with my street stock in the late model class at HRP. Thank you for pointing out the obvious to me . Looking forward to the tips for Dirt Oval racing! Pay attention to the left front tire temperatures versus the left rear. We ran the car with a lot softer set up than that. Remember, we're still using stock components, we're just making small relocations of those points. For the Big Bar, Soft Spring setups, teams often introduce Pro-dive into the left front suspension to encourage rapid dive on entry to get the left front down quickly. The more third link angle you have, the more antisquat there is. Forum Actions: Forum Statistics: Threads: 1; Customer is to bring a clean non-sandblasted frame when picking up the chassis. A good handling car can make gobs of horsepower and hook it up. *-*. Not sure if there is a standard for metric cars but I havent found any specs on it. 2.Now set toe out. Lowering the rear RC and softening the RR spring will help solve the problem. ; C1 - Designed for medium to low brake temperatures and provides good cold bite while being rotor friendly. by RonL Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:36 am, Post The influence of the location of the front MC can be compared to a sliding scale. After you get the cross weight where you want it, adjust the ride heights. Eliminate most of your bumpsteer and Ackermann and install the correct steering ratio for your track that would suite the driver. And as for you Modified and Stocker class teams, don't even think about it. I don't know much about spring adjusters hidden or otherwise but I'd say they could be made to work. First of all, the design is intended to solve several problems. I will post as I no longer race, the biggest thing is the angle of the upper and lower control arms in the rear, you need to understand roll center and instant center to be able to adjust it correctly. This is very "old school" but when applied with a balanced setup, very effective. Your statement that the 3-link is what the metrics needed to level the playing field is the type of feedback that tech. The driveshaft doesn't know which view these angles are resulting from, just that they are equal and opposite. Whats the dominant front clip, and what are they doing with these metric rear setups? Street Stocks Dur-A-Flex Racing. If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. The rear won't desire much roll and there will be excess load transfer to the outer wheel and tire. The reason I say that with confidence, is because I have gone up against more aero efficient cars with setups and body configurations that were aero-deficient and still out ran them. On the metric chassis the roll centers, from what I understand are mainly influenced by ride height, because we can't change control arms ect. If the camaros are allowed adjustable rear shackles and are allowed to use different lowering blocks then they already have weight jacks and are allowed to adjusted rear roll center. For the lower links, lowering the chassis mounts at the front of the link lowers the rear RC. Racing Aspirations refers to this point as the roll center (RC), but it can also referred to as the moment center. I better get the torch and welder dusted off! Officials are trained to find sneaky parts. Turn the wheels to the left all the way, make a mark with the steering wheel, now count the turns it takes to go to full lock the opposite direction. You must try to determine if your setup is balanced and then if not, make the necessary changes to bring it into a balanced state. For me its very hard to be consistent and to adapt to the changing track states! racing on asphalt. We have been softening those setups over the years, but never intended to go to coil bind or bump rubbers. That is the essence of shock technology related to handling influences. Hey I am looking for some guidance setting up my 4 link GM metric rear end. I'm thinking about building a B Body for dirt track racing. It might help to leave it unattached on ovals. It's that time of year again when gardeners all over the world are planning what to grow in their gardens. LOL. I think I'll make a proposal along these lines. Free . On a metric four-link car, the four control arms determine the rear moment center height too. Taipei, Taiwan. $1,700. You need to locate the moment correctly, and the cambers . The Antis Also pinion angle with stock bushings. 1. 30 day Money Back Guarantee!- If you don't learn something that helps you go faster, email me and I will refund 100% of your money backAfter payment you will be directed to a download page. You are using an out of date browser. Might go25- 50 pds more on each side and the left side should be more than the right side. Splash = 2-3 gallons, 1/2 can = 5-6 gallons, 1 can = 11-12 gallons, 1 1/2 cans = 17-18 gallons, 2 cans = full tank. On both dirt and asphalt cars, it's a good idea to fine tune your shocks based on the type of track you're running. Is this why Im wearing out the right front? It just won't work. If we can raise the upper front link mounts, we can lower the rear RC by lowering the upper IC. Copper has been known to kill tomato plants if placed directly into the stem or base, but placing copper wire around the wound may not have the same effect. Im using a 9" floater, locker, 60" w/centered pinion. I talk to lots of racers representing every form of circle track racing in every region of the country and beyond. Always try to start with the track bars first. Be careful not to overdue that. Play the all new "DANNY SIMKINS - 11 STRAIGHT - trivia game." Posted October 3, 2005. Yes, outright violations are penalized, but creative interpretations or improvements in area that have no specific rule usually get the Don't bring that backnext week penalty. LIT-722 C7 Z06 Corvette Heat Exchanger 80294NDP. Balance is spoken of in all types of motorsports these days, even F1. When the LF is too cold, the RR spring is too soft. ANYBODY KNOW OF ANY STREET STOCK RACING CHEATS/TIPS. The Metric four-link suspension design is a bit different than most other rear suspensions. If the car feels tight on corner exit, raise the right track bar. We always start with the front end geometry on any race car. Quick view. Yeah! Caster. Bilstein Stock Car Shock Package Fits the popular metric chassis (4) Front shocks (3) Rear Shocks Stock Mount front and rear Additional Features Nitrogen Gas . LOL. I think everyone agrees that the old leaf spring cars (Camaros and Novas) are becoming harder and harder to find. The track was a 5/8 mile asphalt and was extremely fast. Am I correct that you would reattach the sway bar after making the perch adjustments? Chassis Tuning 101 Murfdogg. I think Terry has already tried, but we'll try again. Just giving the car more rear traction, period, does not help us if the car becomes too tight in the middle of the turns and we could end up with the reverse of what we need. For the novice sim racer, all these setup options can seem overwhelming & confusing without the knowledge of what all these adjustments are or do.By understanding the basics of what each component is & how it directly effects the car, you'll quickly discover what direction you should head when trying to adjust for that looseness exiting the corner under acceleration. If you could slide the MC to the right, or outside of the turn for you road racers, the front end will get stiffer. Quote. If the car feels loose throughout the corner, lower both track bars evenly. Another gardener is pla, Get Free Seeds & Taste the Delicious Flavor of Estler's Mortgage Lifter with Edweather's Generous Offer, Estler's Mortgage Lifter is an heirloom tomato variety developed by William Estler in the mid-1920s. Most often, these pivot points are the upper and lower ball joints in your double A-arm style suspension system. Only at teamsimkins.com. Strictly asphalt street stocks and parts. So, we must make due and set up these cars the best we can. RacelineCentral is not responsible for the accuracy of this document, If you are an owner, sponsor, or mentioned here, Please feel free to contact us below for updating. Since the braking forces are in the opposite direction, there is a serious resistant force created which helps prevent the front suspension from moving in compression too quickly while braking. Download the Jet Mod Scale & Setup Sheet Here! See auction date, current bid, equipment specs, and seller information for each lot. This tape Welcome to STLRacing.com, home of St. Louis Motor Racing News. 70030. JP is that the car you wadded up and broke your leg? There is one IC for the upper links and one for the lower links. I once drove a metric on both dirt and asphalt. We have done a lot with the front roll center and cant wait to see how it does, after that, i found some legal stuff for the rear that we will try. I think that since SAS is more of a momentum track and the metric cars may not have such a disadvantage. On the a street stock what size spring would be better to run on the rear. How about just adding a panhard bar to the stock four-link setup? I drive both a metric (my truck) and a leaf spring car (ss). Maybe if Billy would be more specific about how he made his stock setup work we could learn even more. Reply #9 - 05/01/09 at 8:00pm. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around . As far as I know, all of the iRacing asphalt cars are adjusted the same way. There are some different lower a-arms and front suspension things to make them even better. This configuration is common in General Motors cars built in and around the 1980's as well as some Ford cars, such as the Thunderbird, from the same time period. If all of these issues are evaluated and corrected, then you can move on. The images used are taken from the iRacing Super Late Model setup screen. Did they allow weight jacks? Add to Cart. Leaf springs are important when towing heavy objects.Bear with me here, this digs a little deeper into how leaf spring suspensions work. I can only speak for THR, but we are not allowed to use adjustable shackles, or I should say we are not allowed to have shackles of different lengths. Car went anywhere he wanted and was quick time, won the trophy dash, heat . It is this sliding scale situation that determines the stiffness of your front end. Go here but read before you post..lol. Shocks This is what I did to my Metric that won the 2012 UMP National Championship. Modified Cars for Sale IMCA Asphalt modified Setup Asphalt Modified Race Cars Asphalt Street Stock Setup Asphalt modified for Sale Asphalt modified Set Up The ULTIMATE Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Often overlooked in the mainstream, dirt track racing is one of the most exciting forms of tire-scorching car racing action. Add Comment. Good luck. The CCMS rules allow 3rd link and panhard bar. My old car had a stock frame front to back with just the suspension pick-up points changed, it took a lot of trial and error over three years to get a good baseline for most tracks. Circle Track Wheels. Most guys that are fast there are fast everywhere. The preferred way to adjust the cross weight is by moving weight around. The amount of difference you need is directly influenced by the installed motion ratio of the spring and the spring rate. Symptoms include bronzing on stems and petioles, curling and drying up of leave, This website uses cookies for functionality, analytics and advertising purposes as described in our. Adjust the cross weight for more extreme conditions or different circumstances. Of the other two, camber is well-recognized, but for all intents and purposes, the least-understood . In Stock. Here are some recommendations. I would say 99's priorities worked just fine. Wheel Covers. Through trial and error, I spent a lot of time, money and energy learning how to get a race car to go around the corner and end up in victory lane. With several wins and a championship under our belt after the first year . Get the best deals on Asphalt Oval Racing Parts when you shop the largest online selection at eBay.com. If your vehicle of choice utilizes a McPherson strut style front suspension, then your 2 pivot points would be . How do I adjust the cross weight in an iRacing setup? We can run different sized lowering blocks, but that is not the same as a weight jack from a "quick adjustment" perspective. S3 - Street Stock - USA $4.00; S3 - Street Stock - Lanier $4.00; S3 - Street Stock . "ULTIMATE" Racing Car Chassis Setup Guide and Tutorial. Street Stock. Polyethylene Film / PE Sheet Join OSR Voice/Text Chat. I'm a former NASCAR short track driver and league administrator for SASCAR. One way is to have a rear spring split, where the right rear (RR) spring has less spring rate than the LR spring. If he was at the track and saw the car run he would know that it worked ( by the way it also worked at Eriez ). set the tone for how the parts and setup will work. That is the best description of the result of the dynamic force that influences each system. The setup we choose needs to be arranged so that the dynamics are balanced between the front and the rear suspensions. Yea how many years ago a1? This is because of the construction using angled, from a top view, arms that converge to points called instant centers. Setup Tools. These desires are directly influenced by the spring stiffness, location, and spring split, the sprung weight the system has to support, along with the moment center locations and other settings. competition. These cars just take a little longer to get them set-up compared to the camaros, but there are alot more adjustment points to help you get and stay fast. The artistry comes in when you actually do it. by . Track Tools. Location:Austin, Tx. The cameros have been better then the metric cars at SAS for years,they used to let the metric cars raise the spring pockets in the rear if I remember right,I don't remember what else they were allowed to do though to be competitive. The car will turn better and we will have more bite off the corners. The dynamics of the moment center and the effects of camber change have been explained before. the force of air. The steering system in your car must be evaluated and any negative characteristics must be eliminated. Afco Racing Products. It depends on your rule book and it's enforcement. A 1 1/2-inch top view misalignment with a 44-inch driveshaft results in nearly 2 degrees of angle at both the tranny and the pinion shafts. Location. IMHO they should be able to remove the two upper rear control arms and replace them with a single, fabricated, adjustable upper control arm (top link). so I ran a .185 valving. by RonL Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:02 am, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, Shocks, Springs, Brakes, Frame, Body Work, etc. We can lower the rear RC by making changes to the mounting points. LIT-A950700006 80249N Ford F-150 LightningHarley HE. We also discuss where we want the roll cente. Ill start of saying i know how to mesure the roll center but im not sure where im trying to go or how to exactly. I dont really recommend it. You can then make fine adjustments with the sway bar preload if desired. A three link with panhard bar using the stock lower mounts works fine. Roll Center or Moment Center. by rick7343 Fri May 01, 2015 5:14 pm, Post Now you have to compensate with spring change. The set-up really planted the RR tire. Conclusion The Metric four-link rear suspension is here to stay for a while. would be able to run on asphalt with the leaf spring cars. METRIC CROW FOOT Other Items Online Auctions at EquipmentFacts.com. So, we either lower the rear RC or soften the springs, especially the right rear spring, or preferably do both. We had LF 1000, RF1300. Vintage/Classic/Historical Engine Tech, 3V Performance Engine & Valve train Development, Race Cars & Parts - For Sale or Wanted, Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, Re: Asphalt circle track metric GM 4-link questions, https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/r ss.326355/. The car may or may not be neutral in handling, but the handling will not be consistent. The front end takes time and effort to get the bump steer and caster gain within a tolerable amount, you have to move the upper and lower control arm mounts, cut the left side lower control arm, use special length ball joints, etc, etc. Cra bomber, turbo ,etc. For example, if your initial setup is 52 percent cross-weight, and you want 50 percent cross-weight, lowering the right front or left rear corner will decrease cross-weight percentage. Once you've made the entry to the corner balanced, check to see if the adjuster is centered. document.write("" + "") var contact = "Contact Us" You need to keep the ride heights as close as possible to where they were before you started. Pavement Late Models Stock Cars. Port City Racecars Road Race Chassis is a purpose-built racing machine. Ive read alot of stuff, some of it usefull some of it crazy. Most good cars are built on wheel scales. If the car feels loose on corner entry, lower the left track bar. Get Ready for a New Season of Gardening -Choose from Tomatoes, Peaches, Corn, Zinnias & More! As the car is lowered, the rear RC will generally move down. I see the times at CCMS are identical, THR the truck .5 sec quicker. 5. Online: $349.99. In the same manner, we can lower the rear mount of the upper link and lower the upper IC. Billy Becka's 29 car, as he mentioned, was fast at SAS, but THR and SAS are very different beasts. I used 13" springs with buckets welded in the frame on the rear.Car will be to high without buckets trying to use 13" springs.We used straight 6 valve shocks on the front and straight 5 valve shocks on the rear.Don't mess with split valve shocks if you are a beginner.this spring setup . This will loosen the car, and that's undesirable, especially on dirt. Not sure how much traffic this post will get here. Because these cars are being used in great numbers in the Stock classes of racing here in the U.S., we need to have a better understanding of the design and how it relates to the setups. We took all the cross out like Lee and trailed the RR and did not use much stagger. I understand not wanting to share to much especially if your a racer, but who or where else can I gain info on this? Antisquat is detrimental to corner entry. This 7 shock kit includes shocks for every track condition with tips to help fine tune your racecar. Every year, Jack asks drivers for input regarding rules changes for the following year. One guy said it come up off the ground two feet. On a three-link rear suspension you should have the front of your right-side control arm higher than the rear mount by 1/3 of the total amount it will travel in the turns. Setup Tips for Metric on asphalt racecheep. Antisquat results from the third link trying to straighten out, or become more horizontal as the car accelerates and the rear end desires to rotate. Pavement Modifieds. The car would have a complete roll cage with stock type suspension. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. When you enter the corner you are going to slow down.