Please support us we cant do it without you. My interest would be to see if its scientifically possible for the official theory to have happened. Around 2 oclock. I think they were lost. Gang initiation rights are unknown these small gangs dont have an official policy as you might see with the larger gangs its usually just do as we say and well protect you. Hi Abrahm, thank you for your comment. Also important is who they met because two tall and very attractive new arrivals would certainly get all the boys tongues wagging. Who knows if the girls really went for a walk that day by themselves? Its disturbing. And the black mark on her face. It seems likely it was tribal. The backpack and all the contents are so confusing. In Latin America, it is as common as drinking coffee. Even the cheap pair of sunglasses are in perfect condition. Kriss in the photo is just watching her step. I wish there were more answers to what happened. I think its very possible that someone was with them or joined them along the way at some point. Despite search teams, which included dogs and. Hopefully, this 2021 investigation can find the truth of exactly what happened. The deaths of more than 4,680 people have been documented during migration in Asia since 2014, often linked to the exodus of the Rohingya from Myanmar. Tuesday morning, Velleman and Borries were recovered from inside the plane, according to Albert Lewitinn, a representative for the Velleman family. Do they know more than we do? Thanks for pointing this out. Hi Chris thanks for the link to the book. Also, #509 was deleted after all of the other photos were taken, which means someone went back and deleted it after all of the nighttime photos were taken. It does look like a manmade structure. Its a bit strange that the dog is not in any picture. The fact that the backpack showed up on the bank of a river completely dry and unharmed downstream, with the camera and other electronics still functioning, shows that someone placed it there. So that is what she discovered here. The picture people think she is looking down she is hanging with hands tied behind her back. So easily noticeable. They knew to be on guard and be careful. Hard noncontroversial evidence is very limited and what there is is open to interpretation. Los expertos en conductas humanas (psiclogos, antroplogos, etc. This story struck my heart. Things Tourists Should Never Do in Panama, Ever - Culture Trip I cover a lot of these things in my other comprehensive article regarding Kris Kremers Bones: There are simply too many variables involved to oversimplify the case with the conclusion that they got lost. If I saw a cow skull hanging in a tree I would get the hell out of there, not pose for a photo. Not getting any fingerprints looks suspect. The following insight will make not make much sense to you if you dont know their story. All Froon and Kremers photos were taking with phones and a camera from six years ago, probably jpeg, with all the associated algorithm issues, let alone we have no idea of the provenance of the photos we are all seeing, I doubt any of it is first generation copies straight from the devices, and every time we copy a photo we risk changing the data somewhat. In any case, this doesnt give any insight as to why there are no photos taken from that day beyond the first stream crossing. Which other objects in this photo look unnatural to you? https://i.postimg.cc/3xK4Pdmb/Kris-Kremers-Full-Photo-Highest-Res-auto-x1-1-photos-v2-faces-x2-colored-toned.jpg. WHY? I realize that its more interesting to make things more ominous than they are but this is a very sad case of two naive girls who were totally unprepared for their adventure and very sadly got lost, injured and succumbed to nature. But we need to be careful about the information we have. It would be interesting to know exactly where this photo was taken Is it along the main trail north of the Mirador en route to the stream crossing? The causes of Kremerss and Froons tragic death have never been determined and the two bodies that were recovered have not even been conclusively found to be either of the girls. Youre welcome to do that other places online. She makes a last effort to wake her friend. However, image 510 was taken on April 8, in the darkness of the jungle. And the police know who it is, but will not say anything. But in the last year, several mass graves have been unearthed, revealing to the world a dark practice of human sacrifice which is thriving in the jungles of Panama. More info here. Unfortunately the resolution is not high enough to identify any specific shapes, although it appears to contain the colors white and red. Or if they went, they could have been followed by someone the murderer (or murderers). I think shes frightened, Not only does it look like her hands are tied behind her back,but if you zoom in on just her,her expression does not look happy at all,and she is looking off to somewhere beside the camera,she isnt even looking at the camera,and there appears to be blood in her hair on both sides of her head and her hair is clearly a mess.maybe this photo was taken after their captured, possibly by whoever captured them. We have no police report to read which its self may also contain errors. There are some walls of rock in an area which I think is called los Naranjos, not too far from the Pianista trail (relatively speaking) and is where people go climbing. She turns to talk Lisanna After the alarm was raised on April 2, a search party was sent to look for them but nothing was found until ten weeks later when a local woman who found Froons blue backpack turned it in to authorities. Further to my earlier reply of a few minutes ago, I think the dying from exposure angle is only possible if we consider that either the girls abandoned the rucksack for some reason or it was discovered after their passing. One of them probably fell got hurt, a local found them said they would help and well they didnt help they killed them and dumped in River knowing the river would remove any evidence. In the leaked images some 90% of the original information is irretrievably lost trying to read anything into any of the remaining spots and splotches is fools errand. The illusion of her being tied and in distress is nothing more than that. However, amiscommunication led to them arriving in Boquete too early for their program, which Kremersnoted was "rude and not at all friendly" in a diary entry. Unfortunately we dont have a lot of answers to your questions. Is the time that photo was taken known? They place the evidence where it can be found, brining the matter to a close. I think whoever was behind the (likely) murders wanted it to seem like they went missing due to being lost on the pianista trail. There are flaws in the manipulations, such as the photo timeline, the inconsistent resolutions, the missing photo (or video), the red lines on the shirt, incorrect shadow positioning, etc. Patients often tell our staff about finding the corpses of people who have suffered fatal falls or drowned in swollen rivers. I hope someday the family has answers. Eventually theyll have to confront these issues or nobody will visit and expats/immigrants/investors will leave. If a cave was found that would be big news and there could be DNA evidence inside it. I think she is pointing, but at something else in another location. If it is not possible to join those two points together then that would at least shine light on the possibility that a third party was involved at some point leading to the appauling possibility that they genuinely were lost for some time (until the 5th?) Despite these . Ella divide en dos la historia: las fotos anteriores a la 506 son de alegra, la foto 506 es de pnico y la 507 y 508 de preocupacin. A tragedy and a mystery but in its core, this is only a horrible accident. They got lost and they died of starvation and a hard ration, except for Chriss. There is nothing ominous or cause for concern in this particular pic. Links that require download are high-risk by their very nature, so please consider uploading your media to a website like imgur.com or a similar alternative. I think the camera dried and started working again and they took pictures at night. Hi Em, thank you. No dog. I have one questions for you, regarding the 90 photos taken at night: if these were not taken by one of the girls in an attempt to provide light or whatever, what possible purpose could anyone else, such as an attacker, have in taking these photos? The point is that all of this case was poorly handled by the authorities. But without DNA samples, finger prints, etc, its hard to prove anything. The photo to me appears that she simply is bending over to get the sun out of her eyes, with her right hand help up to shield the sun. Certainly this could have been due solely to incompetence alone, but they ignored performing relatively simple investigation tasks more than once. Hi Chris, good question. I think that she has her hand to her ear,she looks like she is trying to hear what someone is saying,and also,the light is in her eyes;.It looks like she has twisted herself around in doing so. The finding of the backpack 14 miles away is too incredulous to be believed. Maybe one girl regained consciousness at night and took the pictures. In fact, to bring a dog for a walk is less common in general, because most dogs are permitted to go outside anytime they want. Why did they not do that? So they made it out of there, The picture with her standing at cave entrance is also the same place she was standing in dark way off in background. In either case, maybe the rucksack was looted then later planted to avoid criminal implication. I suspect the timestamps on some images are incorrect. To touch on the disappearance case of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon, we can vividly see the incompetence that took place, even under the spotlight of international pressure. It needs to be stressed that while the AI upsampled image looks impressive, it cannot and does not recover any lost information. I could be wrong, but until I see some compelling evidence to the contrary, Im sticking with Juans theory. Please remember to be considerate of the two girls that lost their lives and their families. He even found pictures of the suspect and a local model wearing Kriss blue shirt right after the disappearance. They had plans to meet men there as their boyfriends.Check men they used to Date or seen. Its a sect of foreign Christians that set up in the area and murdered 6 people FROM one of the local tribes. It IS strange that the attempted SOS calls were so few. I think this photo in particular is odd. Why are both her hands behind her back? Of course these generalities and cultural traits do not apply to everyone here. she does see something disgusting. In this photo is another object (or two? Kris Kremers, 21, and Lisanne Froon, 22, were hiking near the town of. The hanging object and other points of interest you highlighted reminded me of this. In which photos? There is what appears to be a well trodden, narrow path to the left of her which passes behind her and enters a very dark area at the back right, which could be the cave. It must have been flowing in the river the police said. The Missing Panama Girls: A Closer Look At One Photo In the end, maybe this photo has more information that was originally thought. Dutch Women Who Went Missing in Panama Confirmed Dead - NBC News Or if someone deleted them? Returning the phones + money immediately made it look like they werent attacked for robbery. I cant explain it but again it resembles so many of the bizarre cases which author and former cop David Paulides has brought (thousands of these similar events) right here in the US and Canada. In May, a 61-year-old American man went missing and was presumed to have gone overboard while on a cruise through the South Pacific, according to a report from the Australian Associated Press. Like she was scouting and turned back to talk to Lisanne, shielding her eyes from the sun to see her. They make no sense in spite of the speculation. I have created a comparison of the original photo leaked to the public, the artificially upsampled version thereof and the (presumed) full resolution picture taken from the article linked to in my previous post (all cropped to show only Kris and further 2 magnified). There are shots of them exploring the jungle on April 1 which appear to show that all is well. This is highly unusual. But she is definitely on a well-worn path. It would also show that the photos had been truly messed about with, as this one is supposed to come before the photos of her crossing the stream. It has to be her arm and hand that are blocking that part of her shirt. A woman from the localNgbetribeturned in a blue backpack she claimed she found along the bankof a nearby river. thank you for sharing this. Its up to the public now the government closed the case 6 years ago. Nearly 100,000 people in Mexico have disappeared | Fox News You highlight the importance of fastidiousness in the articles that I reference. Lets try one more time then (and please dont censor this, even if you think that it is not pretty murders rarely are! We usually permit our commenters to publish links to external material, and you are welcome to do the same. Many hikers from all over the world disappear, fall,or suffer other fatalaccidents while traveling-this could've happened to these women as well. After the backpack was found the family got to see the pictures and the case was ruled an accident presumably the 30 or so pics the family didnt release showed the girls in bad shape,, the case went from foul play to accident after the pics were seen.. the pic of the girls hair was put on internet by her brother or something like that and was quickly photoshopped , the wound and eye were concealed. Update Dec 2, 2021: The full-resolution version of this photo was released in 2021. Theyd probably just bury the camera in a deep hole or toss it in the river or ocean. Rainfall probably washed the bag into the water. If you are in the middle of the jungle, lost, and desperately trying to find service, why waste your battery by logging into your phone. Have you managed to obtain a copy? 90% take place right here in the US in state parks. In a chilling discovery, 90 photos had been snapped on the camera deep in the jungle in the dead of night on April 8 between 1am and 4am - raising questions about who took the pictures. No replies are deleted except in rare cases of spam, inappropriate language/links, or disrespect to another contributor. The point-and-shoot camera numbers its files in ascending order, the way most digital cameras do. Europe is the world . Like you, I also live abroad in a developing country. What Really Happened To Two Dutch Hikers Who Disappeared In Panama? You have to look hard. It may be a plant, but it appears to have a definitive shape and its oddly located that the very center of the path with no other visible red things in the trees. Their families believed the women were still in the unrecovered plane wreckage, and as the search stretched on for days and then weeks, they pleaded with the U.S. government for help they said never came. I was visiting Panama and Boquette July 2014, thats when I first heard about this case and was following it ever since. Tourists are usually only targeted when something goes wrong or someone has a specific personal problem with foreigners or a subset of foreigners. After the attempted calls, the phones stayedon for some time. Kris Kremers, 21, and Lisanne. Hi Chris, to me the place Kris is in looks really spooky, but I also think it looks like the entrance to a cave. Debra Ann Velleman's husband, Anthony Velleman, another passenger and the pilot were rescued by Panamanian search and rescue teams. Does anyone know if the dog they brought with them is in any photos from the hike? My question is: Who has the ability to manipulate both the cameras internal storage database and the photos? According the guidance given to the US Embassy, immigration officials will require tourists who leave the country to stay a minimum of 30 days outside of the country before reentering. Could it be the same man in both photos. The rock in the riverbed is very distinctive was this location ever found and explored? I know if I was hiking and wandering in the jungle (and presumably possibly lost although not quite realizing this at this point), I would be curious about a manmade structure like this. One day in June, the tribespeople bring him what he wants; The backpacks and the bodies. if you break your ankle in a fall and die your foot is likely to be found IN the shoe as is what happened. Others suggested neitherFroonnor Kremerstook those photos; they believesomeone abducted the women. Easily done, I have done that myself several times. It would be interesting to see a map of possible mobile blackspots because it seems where ever they were IF STATIONARY then they were on the extreme edge or reception dependent on atmospherics. Therefore, this can prove that the likelihood of a third party being involved is very high. If it is a photo-op, why is Kris not waving her hands or something. These are all similar in so many of the cases in his Missing 411 series. It will be interesting to see where the photos were actually taken. "It is our intention -- almost exactly one month following this tragic accident -- to give proper thanks to all those who supported our families during this difficult time, as well as to have many outstanding questions answered by way of a swift and thorough investigation," the families said in a joint statement. But during my time spending a year there in 2015 (at the time Id not heard of this case), I had asked around about legends within the jungle and there is in fact legends from tribes who never interacted and are thousands of miles apart which regress of some THING that comes from the sky or trees that is not visible to humans but devours then to the bone. Yes, you are correct that numerous communities do work hard to bring criminals to justice. Maybe the girls did perish deep in the jungle, but that doesnt rule out somebody causing them to get lost. Hi Jim, That particular photo was supposed to have been taken at 1.20 pm. Shadow play back and forth, I find it more than weird that you can clearly see the number 5. . I noticed that youve submitted two more links in another newer comment. . I wanted to her a benefit of the doubt before I came across this article, yes she did mention red and black feathers on a piece of wood and turquoise pendant and a white mask. Most gangs in Panama are not big gangs with hundreds of members, like you would find in Mexico and El Salvador. The Panamanian government had requested that the U.S. deploy assets including Navy salvage divers and sonar to aid in the search effort and locate the wreckage in the days after the crash, but the request was denied due to a lack of assets and jurisdiction, according to a statement from the Velleman and Borries families. You can find more information about on this article: https://imperfectplan.com/2021/02/24/kremers-froon-new-case-data-timestamps-of-missing-daytime-photos/. after studying the original photo, she is actually posing sticking her tongue out, in a slight hunched over salute, the light is hitting her hand, her pose and demeanor makes me believe it is Lisanne taking the photo. If there are documented river paths, this could be a way to find that exact same location. I think someone took them there. Well-worn paths do not lead into a pit. I too believe this is most likely what happened. Theres a blood splatter on her leg from her tendon being cut, to keep her from running away. So, when locals look at you sideways as they glance, glare, or even stare at your shorts and sandals, do not be offended or surprised. Ive seen cases in which political frenemies were erased out of photos without a trace. Here is the comparison: Why no more fotos were taken after 508 on the 1st until the nighttime session on the 7/8th? After this, can ANYONE IN THIS WORLD still doubt that this girl WOULD NOT HAVE WRITTEN OR PHONED HER MOTHER FOR TWO WEEKS when she also called the police 100 times? Hi JW, yes I agree with you about many things. Granted, other dangers certainly exist and thats why we can only speculate about what happened to them. Fact. Again NO SIGNAL! Hi Chris, i heard of this case a few months ago and i read many articles about it. There are over 30 fingerprints on the blue backpack which belongs to one of the girls, but they dont want to investigate the fingerprints. So this sparked my curiosity. Some of them are human, including several skulls and a young girls intact corpse, in the bottom right, with a large hole in the head. Is there somebody behind the insignia? An explosion in tourism has saved Iceland's economy. And if other people learn too much, they get killed too. It looks like something hand-made. Keep the ideas flowing guys. Search parties are looking for her. Why no video diary? If you find more info about this, please feel free to share it. (From our perspective to the right of her directly in front of her feet about waist high). It would be scarey.they could got attack by animal. The camera and photos were tampered with with photos removed and other photos cropped and reduced in size. Lisanne would gave definitely called her mother AT LEAST ONCE because, listen to this this is from her own diary written just two days before their disappearance: According to ageographicalexpert, the three-mile stretch is relatively easy to explore, and most missing tourists return without assistance or come across search parties looking for them. Even if that had happened, the skeleton would have been more intact and scratch marks would have been found on the bones. Machismo culture is very real and respect is considered to hold a higher level of importance in Latin America. Water bottle photo: On the far right upper right of the photo. And her shirt is pushed up. Debra Ann Velleman, 70, of Waukesha, Wisconsin, and Sue Borries, 57, of Teutopolis, Illinois, both retired public school teachers, were part of a community of snowbirds and expats living in the area of Chame, Panama.